|
Post by Rusty on Nov 3, 2002 13:55:04 GMT -5
I just wanted to get some ideas on selection and evaluations of players and coaches.
Right now we got a bit of a controversy happening in our town, we have a really realy peeved parent who's son did not make the Bantam AAA team, and has taken his case to town council.
Because his son is a goalie, and the coaches son is also a goalie and he comes from the other town. The father of the first son is upset.
My question is,
1) what is the best method of evaluation of players?
2)How can we get a totally impartial evaluating system?
3) should we as a MH Association go to say some Oldtimers team and ask them to evaluate our players during the regualr season, keep a database of all our players so that when the following years starts up we have a better idea of how our kids are progressing?
Now the fact of the matter is both of the goalies on our AAA team are from the other town, most people have told me that they made the right choice on goalies, and I am thinking that it is just sour grapes on the part of the parent. But I still don't know why he took his case to the town, he is complaining that we tax payers of Cold Lake are paying for these out of town players, when he neglects to say that the players also fall under the Municiple District. Also bringing in these other players has made our team much stronger than in years past.
Rusty.
|
|
|
Post by cranapple on Nov 3, 2002 14:57:17 GMT -5
a quick question rusty, how are your coaches picked , are they hockey people as well as parents and are they paid? Have any of your bantam 3 A.s jumped right to the W.H.L or prov. A. The reason I ask is there seems to be a difference from prov. to prov. as one of our presenters in the east has a son in 3 A. s but he seems to feel that it really isn't as big a deal as it in Ont. but I know of a couple of groups and how my son was evaluated so I can pass that on.
|
|
|
Post by Rusty on Nov 3, 2002 15:18:00 GMT -5
"how are your coaches picked , are they hockey people as well as parents and are they paid?" Yes they are and no they don't get paid. If that were the case we would have a lot more applicants! Basically the way we have done it in the past, a individual fills out an Application sends it in with a Resume, than we as an Executive sit down and vote on who gets what.
"Have any of your bantam 3 A.s jumped right to the W.H.L or prov. A."
Not very many as far as I know, one of my sons best friends was just drafted by Kelowna, went to the rookie camp and was asked to stick around for the main camp, but his mom said no School is more important, can't say I blame her.
Also as far as I know not very many of our kids have went onto Jr A, our biggest problem is that a good chunk of our population is transient due to the Military and Esso transfering a lot of their people in and out.
Lately the Military has slowed down posting people out of here, as most people who get sent here actually get so used to this area they refuse to leave, much like me.
Any help in this matter would be greatly apprecaited, we are setting up a comitee to explore better ways to evaluate these kids. I also have a problem with the coaches going out in the summer and asking their buddies to help out coaching.
The biggest problem with that is it makes it look like that the kid gets on the team just for the fact that Dad is on the bench, and it makes a lot of people get their backs up.
What I want to see when it comes down to a selection of coaches, he does not approach any others until the selection of players is complete, then he can choose from the pool of parents. Too many times I have seen a weak player get on a Rep team because his father is coaching in some capaicty.
Rusty
|
|
|
Post by cranapple on Nov 3, 2002 17:19:03 GMT -5
Well, what an interesting situation. In ont. our 3 a.s are either the highest level of m.h.a. or totally separate. usually they cover an "area" that might include more than one assoc. other than in the cities which might have a team coming from each assoc. lots of players to choose from and,as well lots of places for players to go when cut. teams have to scratch for ice where the assoc. usually are alloted by the comunities. so, if a boy here does not make a team there really is no place to grieve to other than the 3 A group itself and that usually wont go any place . who would want a boy playing on a team that every one knows that he is there politically? now fathers who coach at that level around here either come into the job because the boy is a shoo in or the team just needs a coach and he comes in as an assist. our teams are picked , from previous yr., most of aug. is spent on the ice and POST SEASON INVITES from being scouted. peewee to midget. most teams have very few spots for walk ons as they are scouted and evaluated from previous. the system that I saw was coaches from other teams either up or below where given sheets with numbers on them and questions as to skating , shooting, puck handling etc. I found that say a peewee who made the jump would never come back to the assoc. but you as an assoc. can a.p. a double "a" team? my son at 16 started playing in a summer jr. league and refused to a.p. with a jr. team in the winter because he wanted to play high school , so every summer, some team usually did an evaluation (scouting report)on him. coaches as well coached in summer inviting the players they wanted for the winter. it can be very political and expensive but the players are the best, In my opinion , at least around here, if the team didn't pick up players from other areas they had a hard time getting ice. so your coach, if the kid is any good at all, well , all I can say is if a better goalie got cut from a team my son was playing on at a major expense, I would want it discussed at a parents meeting. if this guy is doing it for free , someone has to cut him some slack especially if the players are not going further and it is not really hurting anyone. personally, I like your #3 idea and because you are an m.a., it would be a great source of ref. for scouts /reports and how a player is doing or wants to do. a real fragile age. when a father coaches for free especially in small centres there is always prob. we have players go to "A" reg. and they must have the best possible coaching because it is really like a class room at that level and that is why a lot of parents prefer not to have the boys who are showing that extra bit in m.h.a. s. I like help evaluating from other coaches preferably the guy who will get them next and I like to watch the early try outs from the seats. my pref. I really like your idea of comm. involvement though and as an m.h.a. that really should work. I just remembered a peewee "D" coming back to an "A" team my son was on and his dad was managing it, so he left as well. by the way, I have seen try outs that started with 125 kids and seen kids sent off (cut) before the hour or 2 was up. Three "A" in ont is really a serious business.
|
|
|
Post by Rusty on Nov 3, 2002 17:46:20 GMT -5
Actually in hind sight, the coaches son has the best save % and GAA in the North East League, so I would say so far he is proving his father right.
I really think we as an Assoc should be putting more emphasis on the developement of the coaches and players, with a population of over 10,000 and growing we should be seeing a lot more players going onto Jr. We have at least two kids playing in Notre Dame in Sask, also we have just a couple playing Jr A.
One of the kids that was on my sons Bantam House team last year has been Carded as a A.P. with the Jr B team that just started up this year, but with the politics in Hockey here he did not even try out for the AAA Midget team, the other kid that I mentioned who was drafted was cut from the AAA Midget team and is now playing in Midget AA. Both of these kids shoiuld be playing on the AAA team, but like I said the politics rule the game.
Joining the local Assoc my primary concern was to get a voice on the Executive, but now I see where the problem areas are and I want to clean them up and start to develope these kids, the hardest part is that we are sorta kinda isolated from the big Centers in Alberta, but when you look at a place like Viking Alberta (who are lucky enough to have one stop light in town) it makes you mad seeing that very few kids can get out of this area.
Well tonight we are having the Annual General Fall Meeting so it should be interesting to say the least, we also have some problems with a guy who feels that CLMHA owes him and it is his birthright to coach Midget House, even tho he usually loses complete control of his players which is another matter altogether, I mentioned a few of the problems in the other thread on Parents and coaches.
Rusty Rusty
|
|
|
Post by Gerard on Nov 7, 2002 16:51:15 GMT -5
Is it just me or did this stuff always happen?? I played competitive ball as a kid but nobody ever 'lost it' but today this happens all the time. My son told me of a team in this area that had about 7 kids all on the same (high level) team that lived on the same street. Coincidence?? I think not.
The more parents like these get involved the worse they make the rest of us look. We've all seen plenty to b*tch about over the years but a parent just makes it worse by whining. I can't help but believe the almight dollar these parents see their son's getting in the NHL is the motivation behind this insanity.
ps..Don't these kids have any mothers or are they just the silent specatator??
|
|
|
Post by cranapple on Nov 7, 2002 17:21:53 GMT -5
every body thinks there son or daughter is going "on", to the show, what ever sport it may that they are involved in, This yr. I saw a kid picked up by an american "U", he is a rookie at jr. b and grade 12 student and plays jr. ball as well. I have seen him and I can tell you he is "A" material, his ball coach says he is one of the best jr.s in town ---- but---- his parents, who I do not know, it seems are suggesting the scholarship which is worth as a 2 sporter around 30 Gs a yr., full ride. now , does this boy look to-day that he could make money in hockey? yes but he is under 6 ' tall and anything he would do, would be a chance!!! parents at least in this area, mind you we have some jerks but there is so many places to play (any sport) that they at an early age, are told that there child has potential, maybe a girl in 1st yr. high soccer , and the child , if they understand and really want to be good will work at it. but I always stress school comes 1st because the school scouts and "A" scouts have a criteria they follow ,size, school attitude, gen. attitude and home life, yes they visit, more than once!! unless the child is extra special then the sport can be tied in with school for a while and becomes another classroom. when there is talent it has to be neutured and honed, if nothing else the child should become a socially accepted adult in a crazy world.
|
|
|
Post by freshwind on Nov 8, 2002 6:03:03 GMT -5
Earnhardt-go for it. Minor hockey needs more people who are there for the kids. I have been hanging around rinks all my life and have a million stories and a million ideas. Nobody wants to listen. Coaching is a tough spot to have a problem with a kid making the team. The executive has to know the time committment from a "good" coach at the AAA level is immense. Would he coach if his son were not playing? This was probably known when he applied, or at least when he was interviewed. I have been stopped in my tracks at times by the politics. Stick it out for the kids, make sure they are always #1. There is a midget player in our league who got into some trouble years ago, most of the parents and coaches wanted him turfed, didn't want to bother with him. I stuck with him and talked to him. (who could imagine a young teen making a bad decision) He will be 18 soon, but every time he sees me he makes a point of coming over to say hi. He really is a good kid, and remembers that at least one adult didn't bail on him when the going got tough. Those moments are as important as MVP awards, or Most Sportsmanlike. If we stay there for our kids, 99.99999 % will not let us down. Do it man, we need more like you.
|
|
|
Post by Rusty on Nov 8, 2002 14:14:55 GMT -5
Obviously there is a lot more to the story than I have typed down.
When we as an Executive sat down at the Coaches selection meeting much discussion took place due to the fact that the main applicant lives in another town.
As everyone knows AAA is a totally different animal, some people around here (we will call them the Old Boy's club!) feel it is their child's birth right to play on a team with a Cold Lake Freeze crest on the jersey.
There were three coaches who actually applied for the posistion, but we automatically tossed out one because on his application he put down "it would be cool to coach Rep". The other guy actually expressed a desire to coach the AA Midget team, so we were basically left with the guy from out of town.
He has a long history of coaching at Rep level, but his son for some reason went down to House last year. So while he was playing in House he (the Father) enlisted a bunch of Midget AAA players to come out and shoot on his son during practice.
I am a real firm believer that if the parents stayed out of the mix we would not have half the problems we presently have. Perfect example is the other thread started by Old Man, if a parent would just go to the practice and games, keep their mouths zipped it would be perfect. But a lot of parents feel that they pay a lot for their kid to play so the figure they have the right to control what is happening with their kids career.
What I mean to say is, it is great when we get constructive criticsim, but don't come whining to me that your son did not make the AAA team. I don't have any vested interest in any one kid in this area, my son does not play hockey anymore, the only thing I want is to help out your kid.
Rusty
|
|