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Post by Gerard on Apr 10, 2002 10:31:52 GMT -5
This could easily be about all sports, I suppose.
Why is that parents are still living their own childhood dreams thru their kids?? My son is 16 and, by that time, i'd figured that most parents would have grown up. I will admit the majority of them are very good but there's always a few who 'strike' me. There's one couple who, when we won recently by a large score, were yelling late in the game to get more goals and were thrilled when their son did score. I think they were the only ones who really said anything. We did 'cheer' but it wasn't the raucous you set aside for the first goal/game kind of support. Keep things in perpsective. Funny thing is, these two parents seem to be well educated. I'm willing to bet they're very successful at their jobs. So why the killer attitude??
Others try and act like these bursting-with-attitude teenagers are supposed to have proper manners at all costs and can't stand any showmanship. These guys are 16-17 and I can rem what kind of an idiot I was at that age. Yappy and thinking I was tough/nails. As long as it doesn't get out/hand I think that's just part of the growing process. I guess it comes down to what each person considers 'out/hand'. Let'em yap off to blow off steam. I'd rather have that than two-handing a guy.
Is it just me or is your 'status' as a parent directly linked to your son's on-ice abilities?? I saw Matt's coach recently at a Hfx. Moosehead game and he barely could get out the 'hi' that seemed to be just killing him to say. As i've said before my kid is a good little player but he's not much for offence. He's only got one goal all year but he's got a good number of assists. It's not hard to see a line in the sand for your importance as this same coach yaks with the 'elite' parents. Maybe i'm misinterpreting something but I don't think so. At the same time I don't lose any sleep over it.
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Post by Capital_Leafy on Apr 11, 2002 12:06:44 GMT -5
I know that I could get in trouble for saying this but far too many minor sports coaches don't have a clue as to what they are doing. For many, it is all about appearances. Some want everything to be soft and cuddly while others simply want to look good in public. I have no use for either kind.
Hockey, like any other sport at the community level is all about building character in our youth. The primary focus should be on helping these kids to recognise and overcome obstacles. The game and the enjoyment come from succeeding and not necessarily winning. But if a coach is able to get his/her team to that level of confidence in themselves, winning will automatically follow in most circumstances.
People who have a win at all costs attitude or a play fair or nothing attitude should not bother getting involved. Life has it's pitfalls and we are remiss in our duties if we do not give our children the tools to get beyond these problems. I've had some parents complain about my techniques because little Johnny came home after practice all dirty and completely bagged out. Or, that he didn't get to play the position he wanted. Some kids are simply destined to quit. But nearly everyone of my teams responded when it came to crunch times and over the years I had about a seventy five percent return rate at all levels. Many of these kids won championships and some didn't but all came away knowing what it meant to give it their best.
Too many people think that youth sport is little more than adolescent daycare. Not everything in a child's life needs to be a facsimilie of a birthday party. Kids need to learn how to groan, grumble and growl if they are to be successful in life. The hockey rink or the soccer pitch are not a part of Mr. Rodgers neighborhood.
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Post by Leafs_Pam on Apr 12, 2002 0:20:01 GMT -5
I can give a little input on this from what some of the Sharks said and something I witnessed recently.
Sharks:
Drew Remenda, the TV Colour Analyst for the Sharks, has a show on Fox Sports Bay Area called "Shark Bytes." On the current one that is airing Drew did a 3 on 1 interview with Gary Suter, Stephane Matteau, and Mike Aldridge the Sharks Equipment Manager. They all have kids in Hockey. When Drew was talking to them, Gary, Steph and Mike said the same things about minor league and kids hockey, parents, coaches, and Refs that you guys just said. They also said minor league and kids hockey is in trouble.
My experience:
Last week the Sharks hosted USA Hockey, Tier II, 17 and Under Championship Games at the LogiTech Ice Centre in San Jose (Owned by the Sharks). I was able to go to the games a couple of different days (Wed and Fri).
The Ice Centre has 3 ice rinks and they had 2 rinks (North and South) with the games. All the games overlapped. With the exception of the late afternoon games, an hour after a game started in one rink the next game would start in the other rink.
I had been at the Beaver Badgers/Palm Beach Panthers game (2:15pm - 4:15pm). It went into OT at 4:15pm. I wanted to see the Junior Sharks game which started at 4:15pm so I left that game at 4:20 and walked over to the South Rink. When I walked into the game with the Junior Sharks I heard one of the parents yelling at his kid (on Jr. Sharks) yelling blank, blank, blank (I don't want to repeat the words used) and get the heck out there and score. He was loud, nasty and obnoxious. Remember that hockey dad that killed the other hockey dad a while back? Well that's what I thought of when I heard that parent mouthing off. He wasn't as bad to the point he would kill someone but he had to have been an embarassment to his son on the team. I was totally disgusted with that man.
The kids are playing hockey for the love of it. Also to learn good sportsmanship and maybe some day fulfill a dream of making the NHL. With parents like that kid has it makes me wonder about some parents. I really don't like it when parents act that way. It's almost like they think the world will come to an end if his kid doesn't win every single game he ever plays. Losing is part of learning good sportsmanship.
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Post by freshwind on Apr 12, 2002 6:11:42 GMT -5
Boy, thi is unbelievable. CL - I could have written that post myself, it is uncanny. Prior to the Olympics I started a thread about minor hockey and had most people telling me I was nuts. Our system is in a shambles, and not going in the right direction. Our area has a house league system, a local rep type system and then the AAA team that can draw from there. The unfortunate part of all of this is the kids who play rep and AAA are not the most talented always, but rather the kids from families that can afford the ridiculous costs. Last year we had a team in Bantam that had what some people thought were 'bad kids' who wouldn't listen, had egos etc. Well, we started poorly, but came on and ended up winning the championship. Some were quite upset, but I told the kids that no matter what happens from now on, no one can ever take that away. The talent level is very good and one of the rep coaches would watch our games and drool over some of the kids. He really pushed for a couple of them to come out this year, 1 did, thankfully my son didn't, he wanted to concentrate on school. Plus our house league/select program is one of the best I have ever seen. The last 12 months or so though have had me to the point where I thought this is enough. After the championship we had to go into a sort of regional type playoff to see who would go on in the regionals. Three game round robin. We won game 1. We were losing game 2 against a very rough and dirty team, our guys were getting beaten up pretty good, the officials were calling nothing, "let the teams decide". It was close to a war when the game was over. We called our team to the bench and told them to go to the dressing room, we weren't going to take the chance something might break out during the handshake. Even though they had won the game the other team could not advance, we could. As our players were leaving the ice their team was shouting - see you in the parking lot losers. The referee came to our bench and asked what the hell we were doing. I said - you proved you couldn't hande controlling the game, what the **** makes you think you could control a handshake, we can't afford to have our players suspended. My coaching partner did not even hear the exchange even though he was less than 5 feet away. The end result was he gave me a 10, a game, and a gross misconduct for that. I was suspended for 7 games, carried over to this year. No hearing, no discussions, nothing. I was told they have to go by the referee's written report. The worst part is because it was playdowns the official was from another arena, no one knew him, no one spoke to him, he never had to speak with anyone. No accountability on his part whatsoever. This year we had a very poor team, we had only won 1 game about 2/3 through the season. We could see signs though that we were getting through to the kids and they were turning it around. We were playing the top team, lost only twice all year. Up and down game, we were winning with 2 minutes to go and were controlling play. One of our guys hammers a kid and gets a roughing penalty. He says something and gets another 2. The referee comes to the box and says put another man in the box. I asked for what, he said he got 2 penalties, I said ya - 4 minutes, one guy short. He said no, 2 guys short for 2 minutes, put a guy from the ice in the box. I said no, he threw me. Now, we go down 2 men, they tie it up and it ends up 2-2. This ref has been officiating for 6 years, to not know the correct call in this case is unbelievable. End result - I was suspended, he reffed the next game we played. Once again, coach responsible - official not. I have seen far more problems with officials than coaches. I was ready to make this my last year going through this until the parents came up to me and said, stay, we need someone involved who will stick up for the kids. It IS the reason we should do this, we have to forget the other crap, hope we can reach these kids with some important lessons they will remeber well after they forget the score.
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Post by Rusty on Aug 23, 2002 11:29:40 GMT -5
Now I know that our system here is not the only system that is screwed up, I have only been posting on this board for a couple of weeks now so I really just read this post.
We to had a problem last year, I have briefly touched on it in another thread, but there is so much more to the story.
Last year was my first year "Coaching", I have watched my son play for 7 years in this area, the first problem was when the City of Cold Lake actually got incorporated as a City, we had 3 Associations in the area as there were 3 towns.
It took about 2-3 years until the powers to be amalgamated all the 3 into one Association, most people were quite reluctant to amalgamate. Most wanted to keep their own Empire so to speak.
Now the problem we have is some of the old dinosaurs that insist on hanging on to what power they have. When we amalgamated there were some very good hockey people, but alas they were ran out of Hockey because of a couple of power hungry people who wanted their own agenda.
Now we have a president who is all talk and no action, don't get me wrong I get along great with him, but I just feel I am peeing into the wind on some issues. He is the type of person who does not deal well with controversy. A man in such a posistion has to be able to deal with problems.
Our Referee in Cheif is a Dip$#!+, here is a guy who was the coach of a Native Jr B team that got fired because of his incompatence (SP?), and there are some people in this area that feel this guy is a god!
My sons team last year was made up of mostly great players, even tho it was a house team, quite a few rep level kids decided because of school, jobs, and girls that they did not want to commit to A\AA.
At the "Selection\Split", I was the one who stepped up and volunteered my time as the guy who was to be coach was away on business, I stood at Center Ice before Practice with the Bantam Director and we started choosing between the players to make up 2 teams (kinda like when you chose teams in the school yard!)
This guy actually said, I don't want this one kid because I have a problem with his mother! :oI told him I don't coach his mother therfore I don't have a problem. This kid has a shot on him from hell, I have seen him blow it by a goalie from center ice!!! He has size and skating ability to boot.
After the split there were a good number of parents that were rightly upset with the way the split was carried out, the Bantam Director was to coach one team while I would be the Assistant Coach on the other team until the Coach came back.
The Bantam Director is how shall I say, very much hated by most of the parents in the area, I had one parent come up to me and thank me for selecting her son because she was afraid her son would have to play under the other guy for the 3rd year in a row, and his coaching tecnique left a lot to be desired. In fact the guy plain just cannot coach period.
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Post by Rusty on Aug 23, 2002 12:24:49 GMT -5
While we waited for the Coach to return I was basically in charge of the team, so I went to a friend to ask him to help me out as I did not have a clue how to run a practice. It took me some really sweet talking to get this guy out.
Brad came out and really opened my eyes to how best run a practice, he has his stuff together that's for sure. When the real coach came back some of the kids were a little upset as he also has the same reputation as the Bantam Director.
Jump ahead a few months to Jan, we have won 90% of our games, including our own Tourny beating a tier 2 team stacked with 5 overage players!
So now the bad feelings really start to come out of the wood work, the other coach who's practices resemble a Chinese fire drill, with players sitting in the corners scratching themselves or firing the puck into the stands.
He writes a 3 page letter to his parnets blasting the kids for their lack of effort. The kids are upset because they have yet to win a game and most games end up in the double digit zone with them losing by a rather large margin.
We play them on an average of once a week, we handle them fairly easy with plently of penalties for their side. After a while their kids are getting tired of getting wipped by most of the teams in the league, and they start harrasing our players at school. One player said he would take out our best player, you know the drill.
The other coach starts to get a knot in his face because he feels he has been slighted by the split of the 2 teams, when in fact he is the one who did it and I just stood there and said nothing taking the players he threw at me for verious reasons, one cheif reason he felt the boys he gave me were "uncoachable".
In Jan\Feb we were scheduled to play his team once again, he phones up our referee in cheif and says to him that he wants him out to ref our game because he feels we are just a little out of control. Right off the bat our best player jumps out onto the ice and within 30 sec of playing makes contact with a player on the other team behind their net.
The fact of the matter our guy did not see the other kid until it was too late. Both players IMO are very small, our player was keeping an eye out in the slot because his linemate had the puck and was looking to pass it to Todd.
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Post by Rusty on Aug 23, 2002 12:40:55 GMT -5
The Ref gave Todd a major for elbowing, and that is when he came over and started yelling at us coaches.
A couple of days after the game we find out Todd got suspended for 7 games, all of the talking amongst the big heads was just that. The Bantam Coach because he had a personal vendetta against us had contacted the zone director and blasted our team for being undisciplined.
If you take the game sheets from our games with the other team, out of all the penalties their team had 90% of them. That game for some strange reason the stats were reversed, conspiracy? I don't know.
All I know is that when all of this was going on, I was trying to find out what was going on but kept getting brushed off (I hate that).
We went to the Association and tried to plead our case but the President sat there and cleaned and clipped his fingernails! it was quite obvious that we were beating our heads against the wall with this guy.
I asked how can they have a meeting without the prime players, being our team and the coach of the other team (Who just so happens to be the Bantam Director). Also we could not take our case to the Referee in Cheif because lo and behold he was reffing the game so we already know his feeling about the situation.
My biggest problem with the whole mess is, at no time did they listen to our side of the story, they took the Bantam Director's word as gospel.
As it turns out towards the end of the season our Association feels it has to suspend our whole team for the remainder of the season which also included a year end tournament in Calgary.
Well I got a call from the President saying that CLMHA telling me this little tid bit. I was a little upset to say the least so I used my only trump card remaining, I phoned all the mother's and set up a meeting with the big heads.
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Post by Rusty on Aug 23, 2002 13:02:37 GMT -5
What a meeting it was!
The Bantam Director, President, Vice Pres, and the Secratary all attended.
There was a lot of hard emotions and words said in that meeting, but I feel that the Association's eyes were finally opened up to a few situations that have sat for some years now.
As it is the Bantam Director felt that the meeting was a personal attack on him, when in fact we as parents felt that our voice was not being heard because The Director refused to give us information on Hockey matters throughout the year.
Also whenever a controversy came up, he would just go running to someone else to complain about our team.
I hate politics, and as far as Iam concerned politics and sports don't match up very well, all we have to do is look at Olympic sports need I say anymore.
My biggest thing is Communication, if Peter does not know what Paul is doing nothing good will come out of it.
Rusty
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Post by Leafs_Pam on Aug 23, 2002 19:01:16 GMT -5
Wow that sucks!! Ya know, your league sounds just like the NHL doesn't it. These are just kids. Politics has no place in hockey and especially at the level these kids are at. Typical "Old Boys Network." Old Boys Networks always suck lemons no matter whether it's in sports or in business.
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Post by Leafs_Pam on Aug 23, 2002 19:05:35 GMT -5
the City of Cold Lake actually got incorporated as a City, we had 3 Associations in the area as there were 3 towns. It took about 2-3 years until the powers to be amalgamated all the 3 into one Association, most people were quite reluctant to amalgamate. Most wanted to keep their own Empire so to speak. Rusty, if you are here long enough you will find I have curiosity like a cat. I've been fascinated with Canada since I was a wee tyke (4 years old or their abouts). I've only been to Montreal, Vancouver, and around the Toronto area, so I don't really understand the little town areas. As I read your post I was wondering about your area. Can you email me and tell me about this part of your post: <<<<the City of Cold Lake actually got incorporated as a City, we had 3 Associations in the area as there were 3 towns.>>>> Believe it or not, I really am interested. pams1@netscape.net
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Post by Rusty on Aug 24, 2002 0:53:27 GMT -5
If you did have the time to visit I would say come to Alberta and tour around the small towns, stay away from the big places go and see what Canada is all about.
Sure you can see places like Calgary, and Edmonton, but did you know we have the largest concentration of Dinosaur bones in the world 45 min outside of Calgary?
When I did 6 months in Italy in 99-00 I toured around Italy but instead of going to the Romes, Pisas, and Venices, I went into the small towns. That is where you are going to learn about a country or region.
Ciao for now
Rusty
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Post by Leafs_Pam on Aug 24, 2002 2:03:22 GMT -5
Sure you can see places like Calgary, and Edmonton, but did you know we have the largest concentration of Dinosaur bones in the world 45 min outside of Calgary? Rusty As a matter of fact I did. I've wanted to visit your Dinosaur bones for quite a few years now. I have been in love with Dinosaurs since I was about 8 years old. Would you believe when Jurassic Park I came out I was sitting on the edge of my seat waiting to see the first Dinosaur? I was. ;D When I saw that first Dinosaur, I had the same awe and amazement on my face as the "Doctors" had. I distinctly remember hearing myself verbally making aw and wow sounds. They were so real to me. I missed my callling. I should have been a Paleontologist because I still love Dinosaurs as much now as I did when I fell in love with them at 8 years old. I can still remember my aw and amazement at that first Dinosaur and I can still feel it. I would love to go on a Dinosaur dig. They have digs where they allow just regular people to join them. That would be SO cool! Anyway, I still wish you would email me to tell me about your little city and how it was incorporated. What other towns were involved?
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Post by freshwind on Aug 24, 2002 8:49:24 GMT -5
Rusty, I look forward to some great conversations over the winter about minor hockey. OM posts about his son's minor hockey as well. Should be great perspectives - one from eastern Canada, one from central, and one from the west. The downside is so far it sounds like we all have the same problems. The only sport I get more passionate than the Leafs about is MINOR HOCKEY.
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Post by Rusty on Aug 24, 2002 9:53:25 GMT -5
"I've wanted to visit your Dinosaur bones for quite a few years now." Be careful there I am a very happily married man, also I don't feel that 40 is to old! ;D We went to Drumheller last year and did the tenting thing (that's why this year we went and bought a fifth wheel trailer!), we tried to tour and participate in a dig but it had rained the day before, they do not allow go on a dig when it is raining or a day or too after.
Did you check out the website I sent you last night?
I hear you FW, it will be interesting this season. I have never really thought much about minor hockey out East, been to worried about what is happening out here.
Now that I took a posistion on the Executive (Bantam Director believe it or not LOL), I will have a whole new veiw. Should be interesting needless to say. We have already had a few pumps in the road this season if you can believe it, hopefully my sweet talking helped us get a Midget House Coach. ;D
Ciao for now
Rusty
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Post by Leafs_Pam on Aug 24, 2002 15:13:54 GMT -5
"I've wanted to visit your Dinosaur bones for quite a few years now." Be careful there I am a very happily married man, also I don't feel that 40 is to old! ;D For shame on you!! When I said your Dinosaur bones I meant the Real Dinosaur bones in Alberta. Sheesh!! You guys are really bad!!
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