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Post by CL on May 7, 2003 6:24:08 GMT -5
Too many favoured teams fell by the wayside far too early this season not to have been noticed. And too many of those teams had a huge payroll and a stable of big name thoroughbred players not to have been hurt. There may not be a wholesale slaughter of hockey flesh this summer but the trade market should be full of speculation and more than the odd familiar name will be found in a different organization when training camps open in the Fall. At a time when uncertainly will likely kill much of the free agent frenzy in July, the demand for decent journeymen players under contract and big name stars with only one or two years remaining on existing agreements could be fairly substantial.
New Jersey is the last of the so called "favoured" teams still left in the hunt for the Stanley Cup and they have one very difficult series ahead of them before they can even hope to battle for another championship. The possibility of having a "new kid" representing the west is a sure thing and it is a distinct possibility in the east as well. Now, some might argue that the league is seeing a changing of the guard and that may well be true but this current upheaval was much too abrupt to be anything but a freak occurrence. While Ottawa and Vancouver may represent a new power base in the league, most certainly Anaheim and Minnesota do not. At least not yet anyway.
The Toronto Maple Leafs have to decide whether or not they are going to continue their pursuit of a Stanley Cup or start the rebuilding process which is only a year or two away in any event. If management decides it is the former, the Leafs are still one good defenceman and one good left winger away from being considered a real contender. Free agency might tantilize the fans with visions of Derian Hatcher but realistically, Toronto will have to go in another direction. Perhaps Greg DeVries is a possibility but after Hatcher, he will be one of the more coveted free agents and that could drive up the cost considerably. In all likelihood, the Leafs may have to look at making a deal to satisfy both their offensive and defensive shortcomings.
There will be no shortage of trading partners amongst the elite teams. Dallas, Philadelphia and Colorado all have significant personnel issues and one way of solving some difficulties is to make them somebody else's problem. However, not all problems turn out to be trouble for their new teams. Eddie Belfour is most certainly a case in point in this regard. Sometimes, it is simply a matter of a fresh start in different surroundings and more than a few well known names are in need of a change. Jason Arnott in Dallas is one and so is Eric Lindros in New York. The Flyers are in desperate need of a quality goaltender and with Janni Pitkanen available for professional play this coming season, Bobby Clarke definitely has the asset to get that decent backstop.
Along with the fallen mighty, several pretenders are in search of one or two key veterans that might possibly provide the impetus to get their rosters over the top. It seems Mike Milbury of the Islanders is always in this crowd but he is joined by Jay Feaster in Tampa Bay and a few others as well. The Rangers might be seen in this group too but calling that organization pretenders looks to be paying them a compliment they do not deserve. Amid all the desires of these plaintive general managers, there is bound to be a good fit for several teams. With the economics and the politics of the game where it is, there could well be some very attractive deals just waiting for consumation.
Whatever course the Leafs' braintrust decides to take, there are a number of attractive options available to them. Toronto may not find that big horse of a defenceman they so desperately need but there are alternatives out there. Certainly, there are more choices to fill in that open spot on left wing than a fading and overpriced Teemu Selanne or Luc Robitaille. And should the Leafs decide to blow up the team, the potential for significant return from a series of deals is enormous. This is a good year for prospects and it is an excellent year for the draft. If the cost of a real cup run is too dear for the beancounters on Bay Street, there are other options available on the open market. If the doomsayers are correct, there is but one more cup before the "Dark Ages" set in for at least a couple of years and Lord Stanley's prize sits uncontested. If the Leafs want this one last chance, they need to do some serious shopping. If they do not, they need to do some serious selling. Either way, it will soon be Market Day in Hogtown.
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Post by lapniappe on May 7, 2003 7:26:38 GMT -5
I would do one great push.
I mean why not? you have the players, you have the talent for the most part, and look at the average age of your players.
33.2
Very old. Oldest in the league in fact, by .5 (Detorit is the second oldest team).
get De Vries. I'd go for him anyway, just because he's an improvment for half the defensive core anyway.
I wouldn't even bother going after Hatcher. I mean we already know who the bidders are. Dallas isn't just going to let him walk away, Detroit, and New York Rangers. If we pretend there's a cap, then why place all your cap money w/Hatcher? (and Pammy doesn't like him anyway; too goonish).
this is the scenario, I'm gathering.
We make a pitch for Devries, and a few other defensemen. we land two (none of them de Vries).
We hear some co*kenanany story how we tried and tried and tried....and tried...and tried....
and we get mad and call radio shows.
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Post by CL on May 7, 2003 7:29:47 GMT -5
If the Leafs make another run for the cup (and they will), this team will be ruined for the next decade. Pat Quinn has repeatedly demonstrated that he is not capable of judging conditions and assets. To permit him to continue this folly is to insult the good faith of Leaf fans everywhere. As far as I am concerned, Larry Tenebaum is just another in a long line of BS artists with more power than brains.
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Post by lapniappe on May 7, 2003 7:32:01 GMT -5
If the Leafs make another run for the cup (and they will), this team will be ruined for the next decade. Pat Quinn has repeatedly demonstrated that he is not capable of judging conditions and assets. To permit him to continue this folly is to insult the good faith of Leaf fans everywhere. As far as I am concerned, Larry Tenebaum is just another in a long line of BS artists with more power than brains. how so? as in they trade away all their assets? (they don't have much assets to trade anyway). or they collect garbage, and signed them for inane deals? we shouldn't judge Tannebaum yet. I mean he hasn't done anything yet. He offically can't fire Quinn until July 1, right?
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Post by CL on May 7, 2003 7:42:44 GMT -5
He could have delayed the re-signing of Rick Ley. By letting that signing take place, the ownership is confirming that Quinn will be back and that it is status quo.
Why should this team continue to pay players like Sundin, Mogilny and Nolan the kind of money they are getting when Pat Quinn surrounds them with the likes of Lumme, Reichel and Hoglund? While I liked three of the deals made at the deadline, Quinn goes out and gives away two picks to get an injured and over the hill Phil Housley. Now I am hearing rumblings that despite public statements to the contrary, Quinn does not have any intention of trying to re-sign Glen Wesley and never did. A second round pick in a deep draft for a rental player on a team as disjointed as the Leafs were this past season. This is beyond stupidity.
If you think Pat Quinn is going to do any better in selecting replacemnts this summer you are denying history and kidding yourself. This man has been around forever and has never won a Stanley Cup. There is a reason for this little delinquency.
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Post by stugats1 on May 7, 2003 10:26:48 GMT -5
I thpought it was a joke I read here on the board earlier. I cannot believe Rick Ley was re-signed for another year? What the heck is that? That is awful news. I think this owl is useless as a coach. Did you hear his comments on how happy he is in his position. Loves working with Pat and for the Leafs. Well know kidding because you seem to answer to no one and do nothing to help (in my eyes). This is terrible news.
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Post by Rusty on May 7, 2003 13:17:14 GMT -5
Stu I was beside myself when I read the article on Waymoresports, that is sending out the wrong message to us fans, keeping Mr Ley is the biggest mistake that we can do. I still say a position in the scouting staff of jr d hockey in the Italian countryside is screaming for his expertise! This guy has done nothing but ride on the coattails of Quinn, I cannot stand this man, does he even understand the basics of defensive tactics?
As for the moves you talk about CL I agree with you, but I am starting to think it is time to cut bait right now and worry about the longterm future, I would much rather build a team that is going to contend for a cup year after year in another 3 years, rather then one last shot at a lonely Cup championship! It is all fine and dandy to finally say yes we have a cup, but to dismantle that team and start over from scratch because the team was only worried about getting 1 cup.
Man years ago you used to load up a team and attempt to get more then 3 cups, now days you are lucky if a team tries for more then 1 cup in any 10 year period. I realise that the skill level is down from years gone by, but if we had a smart hockey man, (you know like this smart hockey man that we apparently have on the team already, can someone please point him out to me???) we need someone who has the back bone to make that decision that we are going to start a a rebuild. We have the makings of a good team judging by some of the young talent that we have wallowing in the minors, just imagine if we shipped out a few key players on the draft floor for a couple of first rounders. Tucker has lost his appeal with the fans, maybe even going so far as to ship out a Kaberle.....
Rusty
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Post by CL on May 7, 2003 13:32:11 GMT -5
My personal opinion Rusty would be to blow up this team and start over. In doing that, the Leafs do not have to sacrifice all that much of the present to strengthen the future. The only regret might be the Nolan deal however. With the depth in this year's draft, that first round pick is going to be a pretty good hockey player.
Sundin, Mogilny, Belfour, Kaberle, Tucker and Green could fetch some decent talent.
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Post by lapniappe on May 7, 2003 14:11:01 GMT -5
could the city and their finanical commitments handle another blowing up of the team?
we all want the cup now, but to blow up the team right now, when everyone is in agreement that the team needs one, or two top defensemen, people would be pleanty ticked.
the first round draft pick will hurt. but it would have been 20-30 anyway, is the draft really THAT deep?
we still have Calgary's, Nashvilles, and whoever comes up comp picks.
Who on earth do we get for Sundin, Mogliny, and Belfour? With Sundin/Mogliny, that's basically 2/3's of scoring right there. Belfour is a calming goalie to Kidd, you saw that later in the year, and he could be the same for Tellqvist.
Green, Kaberle, Tucker, I can handle...
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Post by CL on May 7, 2003 15:43:43 GMT -5
The draft is very deep this year and good prospects run well into the second round. In fact, a lot prospects who will be taken in the second round would have been first round selections in a lot of other years. No first rounder means no Dion Phaneuf, Patrick O'Sullivan or Steve Bernier.
As far as what certain Leafs could bring, both Sundin and Mogilny could snag first round picks and at least one or two good young prospects. With the likes of Arnott, Richards, Gagne, Williams, Matvichuk and Lindros available for the right price, the possibilities are intriguing. Apparently Lindros could be had for second and third level prospects. A kid like Brendan Bell has his stock high at the moment but he is never going to be the player some people think he will be. Same with Hedin and Kronwall. Both are getting rave reviews and yet, they have not played a game in the NHL. For a propect hungry team like the Rangers or even the Avalanche, there's a deal to be made.
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Post by Rusty on May 7, 2003 20:32:24 GMT -5
Well it seems that we locked Kyle Welwood to a rookie contract.
But just imagine what we could get for the likes of Sundin and Mogilny? we should try to parlay these two for a few prospects and a couple of first rounders. I really think that that would set this team for a very long time CL.
What is it going to take to grab a André Mark Fluery (sp?) this kid is going to be the cornerstone goalie eveybody wants and needs?
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Post by CL on May 8, 2003 5:56:52 GMT -5
Florida has the first pick this year and their interests lie in either a top end big young defenceman or a top end big young centre. A first round pick would have to accompany the player as well or another top flight youngster. With their financial situation, the Panthers would not accept an established star and so trying to acquire a kid like Fleury would be an expensive proposition. For the Leafs, it would be almost impossible unless they could flip a pick acquired from an earlier trade and then package it along with someone like Antropov.
I should point out that the second round pick Quinn gave Carolina for Wesley is for the 2004 draft and not the draft this June. I don't want to be accused of being unduly malicious towards my friend Pat. However, next year's draft looks to be pretty decent as well.
You are right Rusty. If played right, the Leafs could be set for years to come by trading most of their high end talent and that does not have to translate into ruining the team for the next couple of years. It does mean lowering our expectations for a while but the Leafs certainly would not have to become the league's doormat.
Someone like Bobby Clarke is desperate to win a Stanley Cup and if he does not get it next year, he could well be unemployed by the following summer. Offering the Flyers a package of Mogilny and Belfour could bring Gagne, Williams and Pitkanen and if the Leafs threw in someone like Paul Healey, the Flyers might include a second round pick. Gagne alone could be flipped to Montreal (who are always looking for francophone stars) for a youngster like Mike Komisarek and perhaps a pick. Or to Tampa for Brad Richards and Cory Sarich if the Leafs included one of their reluctant European prospects. Throw Kaberle into the mix and the deal could bring Tampa's first round pick Toronto's way.
Sundin casts a whole number of other options. While there is probably only a half dozen teams that could afford him, he does offer the acquiring team a healthy offensive presence on the ice. Unlike Nolan, Lindros and Kariya, Sundin has never had a major injury and that makes him all the more valuable. He would bring at least two decent youngsters and a first round pick in a trade.
Now Toronto would likely not get a decent return for Nolan because of the situation in this year's playoffs but he is still young enough to provide some offensive credibility and leadership on what would become a very young team. And the Leafs could add a player like Eric Lindros to help carry the team over the hump for the cost of two or three mid-level prospects. A combination of three out of a list that includes Bell, Hedin, Kronwall, Knoepfli, Cereda, Kondratiev, Kolozvary, D'Amour, Kelly or Chartier would likely work. The Rangers are looking to dump Big Eric's salary and some attitude from the locker room. (If anyone thinks that the Lindros family has given up on their dream to see Eric play in Toronto they are sadly mistaken). As long as Glen Sather could appear to save face, he would make the deal.
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Post by freshwind on May 8, 2003 6:15:36 GMT -5
Well, picking all the tidbits around the last couple of days I've come to the following conclusion. LT is firmly in charge of this team, his "shadow" board took control immediately upon the ownership shuffle. (with Stavros blessing~according to Peddie~live interview on the fan) The decisions for next year were made about 3 weeks ago. From various sources they are the following. 1) Pat Quinn has won the battle between Dryden and himself. Dryden will not have his contract renewed but will be offered a "position" within the company. 2) Ley has been given a contract extension. 3) Bill Watters will not have his contract renewed after 12 years with the team. 4) The player revolt has started~Svehla faxed in his "team" retirement papers upon hearing the announcement that Ley was back. 5) Quinn now has ULTIMATE< TOTAL control of this franchise. I don't know if I want to laugh or cry! Last year at this time if Q would have been allowed to bring in Tambellini as his heir apparent I would have been a happy camper. This would have given us 2 years to the cba to make a run. Now, as stated in a number of places, it is a 1 year deal~how should we react? I have to say, at first thought there is no way we can blow up this team now, not with Q, Ley, and Acton all still around. We have seen the fruits of their building. Lumme as a cornerstone reminds me of that wise story of building your foundation on sand vs rock. This team, overall, is at a phenomenal crossroads. We have some prospects with excellent potential. We know they won't all pan out, the decisions made in the next 6 months will determine how our next 10 years play out. I have lost confidence in this regime, and have read some articles on other boards that can still put some optimism in the future of this team. Our prospect cupboard has a number of goalies and dmen, definitely the harder to develop, now we are starting to get some forwards. Potential hope. This issue, of who coaches on the Rock has more impact on this org. possibly than Pat being back for another year. The one bright spot I see in all this is that Watters being let go, along with Kenny, MUST mean Tambellini is heading this way after Vancouver gets knocked out tonight . I really need to give this some more thought before getting too down, (or up for that matter) as right now I fell somewhat disenchanted, and I cannot fully put my finger on it. da*n those Leafs! But I stand by my email to the team~ btw I have not had a response.
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Post by CL on May 8, 2003 6:23:13 GMT -5
You are right FW, with Quinn in charge this team will not be blown up. It will be interesting to see what compensation is given the Canucks for Tambellini. Pat Quinn will ruin this franchise for the next ten years.
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